They Must Know We're Out There......

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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Murfreesboro » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:53 am

I guess I don't really understand the idea of a Christmas "auction." Do people bid on their gifts? How do they "pay"?

One of my cousins married into a very large family connection who still celebrated Christmas Eve with their extended family. Rather than burdening everyone with buying gifts for everyone else, they would draw names. That way it was affordable, and people could buy one nice gift for a person they knew. They could be assured of receiving one nice gift from someone else, too.

I have Passions of the Christ on DVD and watch it every Good Friday. However, I usually watch it alone. My husband saw it once in the theater, and once was enough for him. My older boy saw it in the theater when it first came out, but hasn't watched it again, as far as I know. My younger two were too young at the time to see it new, and I am not aware that either of them has watched it since. Maybe my middle boy has watched it once.

Passion of the Christ is a very well-made film that has powerful Catholic iconography (much emphasis on Mary, the scene with Veronica and the veil, etc.). I'm OK with that, but I have known Protestants who seemed somewhat put off by it. Mainly, I think most people just don't want to actually look at the brutality of the Crucifixion. Most of the religious films I grew up with (1960s versions) would sanitize the Crucifixion, showing it without much brutality and with very little blood, etc. Passion of the Christ really makes you look at that stuff.

I never saw The Nativity in the theater because I had the idea that the filmmakers had added a lot to the story (they would show that scene of the river-crossing in the trailer, for example). But in fact they do follow the Bible pretty closely, with only a few additions. I thought it was very well-made and did a good job of depicting everyday life in Bible times.
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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Pumpkin_Man » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:38 am

Murf, the "Christmas Auction" is a very barbaric game my older sister brought to us from Washington DC the first year we "celebrated" Christmas in arm pit New Lenox. The way it works is that we have a Grab Bag. Everyone donates a gift or two to it, and then we are all given 100 "points." The little ones open the gifts, and then anyone who wants the gift that was opened will bid so many "points." One person, usualy my brother Bob, is incharge of keeping track of all the points, and when you used up all your points, you're out of the game. It may sound like fun, but it's IMHO a very nasty, godless game that completely takes away from the celebration of Christmas as a Christian holiday, and turns it into a greedy, get whilt the getting is good, me me me holiday. The first year we had it, I hated it. It was another unwanted change in my life, the result of moving to arm pit New Lenox.

I also watch "The Passion of the Christ" every Good Friday, and the reason why it was given an "R" rating is because of the graphic violence depicted. Roman crucifixion was not the sanatized thing you see in the older Bible epics. It was a very brutal, degrading, painful, torturous way to die. It was reserved for only the worst of the worst criminals who lived at that time, and if you were sentenced to be crucified in ancient times, everyone hated you. It was paremount to being convicted of child molesting today. "The Passion of the Christ" graphicaly illustrated what crucifixion was all about. The Catholic references, however, were most likely because Mel Gibson was raised Catholic and was/is a very devout believer. I can't swear to that, as I am not a vast encyclopedia of knowledge with it comes to actors and actresses, but I did hear that at some point when the movie was out in theatres.

A lot of people protested the release of "The Passion of the Christ," because they found it offensive for some reason. Jewish people thought it was anti semetic, but I couldn't see it that way. The way I allways saw the story of Christ's crucifixion was how he stood alone against a society that hated Him and His message, and he suffered for the sins of all man kind.

"The Nativity" was nothing like "The Passion of the Christ," as far as the dramatic aspect is concerned, but it is a favorite Christmas story of mine, and I screen it every Christmas Eve after I get home from the evening Mass.

That thing you do with drawing the name, is very common in my work place, but we don't do that as a family. We figure that Christmas is for little kids for the most part, so most of us who have a limited gift budget, will buy presents for the little ones only, which is what I do. I won't have anything to do with that auction, as it is against my principals. All the adult gifts, however, are pretty much tied up in that auction. Recently, my sister inlaw and other started telling everyong insecret ".....dont bid on this or that because I want that to go to so & so....." Well, you can figure out what I'm getting at here. I just tend to ramble on when I talk about that auction and about Christmas in arm pit New Lenox.

Mike

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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Murfreesboro » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:31 am

Oh, I believe my older boy's Cub Scout Den did that auction thing one year. It didn't work too well & was never repeated. I don't blame you for not participating. The gifts are not that big a deal to most grown-ups, anyway. There's not much that anyone else can buy for me that I couldn't buy for myself, and if I can't afford it, the chances are others can't either, or shouldn't try.

Mel Gibson is indeed Catholic, some sub-sect that never accepted Vatican II, I believe (whichever ruling took Latin out of the mass, because he belongs to a church that still uses Latin). So he is a very conservative Catholic. Not sure in what standing he now is with his church, since he left his wife of many years and took up with that other woman, who had his child.

I never have thought that Passion of the Christ is anti-Semitic, either. The passage in question was straight from the Gospels and, I suppose, has been taken out of context to justify anti-Semitism over the years. But I have never understood why some Christians would be anti-Semitic, anyway. After all, whatever else Jesus was, he was most certainly Jewish. And his original disciples were all Jewish, too. Christian theology doesn't even make sense without the Jewish context, the whole idea of Passover, etc. Jesus's enemies were mainly some of the authorities in the Temple, who saw him as a threat to their political power, not the rank and file of Jewish people.

I have always enjoyed hearing the ancient languages in that movie, especially one scene where Pilate, speaking to Jesus privately, addresses him in Aramaic, and Jesus responds in Latin.
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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Pumpkin_Man » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:19 pm

That's a good point. How can one claim to love Jesus Christ, a Jew, if he's an anti Semite?

The ancient language dies ad an element of reality to the show, but because of my eye sight not being up to snuff, I tend to miss a lot of what's happening in the movie because I have to read the sub titles. Then again, it's a whole new ball game every time I screen "The Passion of the Christ," because I notice something that I missed the last time I screened it.

There was even a scary part in "The Passion of the Christ." The demons that were depicted, and the condemnation of Judas. Ironic that he hung himself in that garbage dump outside Jerusalem. That garbage dume was called Gehena.

Good point about Christmas gifts. I am in exactly the same situation. Additionaly I have a personal philosophy about some things. What others can afford to give me, I can buy for myself, and I would actualy not like it if some one were to buy me something big-ticket that I couldn't afford on my own, like a Rolls Royce, or offer to pay off my mortgage for me. I may be an old fashioned stick in the mud, but I don't think I could accept such a gift.

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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Murfreesboro » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:26 pm

Oh, Passion of the Christ has some very eerie scenes. Certainly the demonic taunting of Judas is part of that. I also think that opening sequence, in Gethsemane, where Jesus is being tempted by Satan, is very, very effective. And there is a point where you see the Devil's face in the crowd of Roman soldiers who are torturing Jesus.
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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby iHaunt » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:20 pm

How about removing XMAS? I only love HALLOWEEN & THANKSGIVING!!! Also SUMMER! 8) Maybe, a little bit of Spring... :D
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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Murfreesboro » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:16 am

You mean you want us to move the posts about it somewhere else? Sorry, I guess we did get side-tracked there. But then, the thread started out by references to Halloween ornaments for Christmas trees, so it was a natural progression.

I have noticed that some members of this forum seem to love all holidays, while some others seem to dislike Christmas, I guess because they feel it is overblown and over-shadows Halloween. I love them all.
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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Pumpkin_Man » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:41 am

Actualy I do like Christmas. I love Christmas in fact. It's not my absolute favorite holiday, like it was when I was a kid, but I would hate to see it go. If for no other reason, it's part of a beloved and for me a very sacred religious tradition. I guess I could say that Christmas has taken on a new meaning for me as an adult. When I was a kid, it ws undoubetedly the new toys, and there were a lot of neat things back in the 60s and 70s. But now, it's the old traditions and the celebration of Christ's birth. I especialy love the pre season. I allways observe Advent, and I light the Advent wreath every night at the dinner table. In fact, Advent is the only time of the year I actualy eat dinner at my table and not on a tv tray in front of the tv.

I love to listen to Christmas music, and I am particularly fond of the various brass ensembles renditions of various sacred Christmas carols. I also love the way my grand nieces and nephews faces light up when they come to my tree trimming party, and they get to put ornaments on my tree. Their faces light up again when I pull out the Charlie Brown Christmas, Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer, and "Santa Clause is Comming to Town DVDs.

You see, there is still PLENTY to love about Christmas, and the little ones are at least learning about the old Christian traditions that once were celebrated by my entire family. So I would not want to see Christmas done away with. It's definately on the back burner as far as holidays go, but I still love a lot about it.

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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Murfreesboro » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:27 pm

I really wasn't thinking about you, Mike, when I wrote that post. I think I get where you are coming from.

My husband is a devout Christian, but he doesn't really like Christmas very much. At least, he dislikes the way it disrupts our schedules and makes us crazy with all the events that are clustered in the month of December. Especially when you have kids, and more than one, you just get pulled in every direction. It gets crazy.
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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Spookymufu » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:43 pm

Murfreesboro wrote:I really wasn't thinking about you, Mike, when I wrote that post. I think I get where you are coming from.

My husband is a devout Christian, but he doesn't really like Christmas very much. At least, he dislikes the way it disrupts our schedules and makes us crazy with all the events that are clustered in the month of December. Especially when you have kids, and more than one, you just get pulled in every direction. It gets crazy.


Amen, I was just complaining about this exact thing the other night to a co worker
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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Pumpkin_Man » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:27 am

That was exactly what I use to dred about Christmas when I lived in arm pit New Lenox. All the confusion, busy schedule coupled with all the changes to our beloved traditions all made it a very stressful time rather then a holiday. I did have to relearn how to love Christmas, and since I am not maried and have no kids, it's a bit easier for me then it would be for you and your husband. My sister only has one child (she's grown up now) but when she was raising her, it was one thing after another, and on top of that she also hosted the big family party.

At any rate, by keeping Christmas holy, I am keepingit very Merry.

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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Murfreesboro » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:01 am

Pumpkin_Man wrote:

At any rate, by keeping Christmas holy, I am keepingit very Merry.

Mike


A beautiful sentiment!
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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Pumpkin_Man » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:19 am

Thank you, Muf.

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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby iHaunt » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:15 pm

Santa = Satan


:lol:
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Re: They Must Know We're Out There......

Postby Pumpkin_Man » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:14 am

Sorry. I meant to say "Thank you Murph," not "Thank you Muf." I apologize.

iHaunt, "Santa" means "Saint." Like Santa Monica, San Francisco, San Bernidino, San Quentin. Saint Monica, Saint Francess, Saint Bernidino and Saint Quentin.

You can manipulate the letters in a lot of words. Santa can be changed to be satan. "Live" can be turned around to be "Evil," or "Vile." "God" can be changed around to be "Dog." A 'tac" can be turned into a cat," and Deb, (short for Debbie or Deborah) can become a bed.

So Santa does Not = satan.

Mike

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